Thanks for your thoughts Dave - I am already getting into the spirit of the Cafe Discussions! I also agree with your feedback and mostly my comments that seem of a negative nature are not about C&C - its' origins and vision are true to the reality of a sustainable future.

The problem is that there is now a hijacking the discussion that leads to a distortion of truth and hurts the sense of unison among those who wish to build a better, positive, abundant and sustainable world. We never sort out our agenda because it is tangled up with the agenda of those that oppose (consciously or not) the changes that will also change the power structure and the economic structure. Our political thinking must be at least that realistic to see how much of what is being done is defeating our own cause before we even start. This is happening because we are focused on the problem matrix and not the solution matrix. For example the Nov 4th Climate Change March is all about protest and projects anger not only at the "bad guys" but also at the consumer (thatís you and me) and the whole system in a self righteous way and with only warnings that we will suffer but with little hope for a light at the end of tunnel. In fact the speakers feel that it is their duty to extinguish hope so that we all can be prepared to "bite the bullet" and face reality. This is actually the face of fear and the future of scarcity and we will not go there peacefully. It is playing to conflict scenario where the powerful retain control of the situation at any cost (while claiming that it is for our own protection from the unknown enemy) - control meaning: no change, no way out of a linear thinking world.

That is why we must first free our thinking and pump up the courage to see solutions to problems. These solutions do not revolve around money and economic strategies like "carbon trading". It is not a solution to have a law to spread the pain or way to fine those most responsible for pollution. It is a solution to end the pain and find the zero pollution solutions. We need to empower people and equip them for change; making them agents of change who are not discouraged and disheartened. This environment that will empower change will be very fragile at its beginning but if allowed to emerge it will grow ever stronger and produce all the evidence that is needed to continue to flourish. So the first stage will need support from risk takers - those willing to make their own life an experiment in living and learning. Many others at least need to be open to new ideas - willing to get a taste of an alternative lifestyle. Because of our inertia, it is likely that the action hot spots will be in the developing world - an authentic North/South collaboration would be an ideal catalyst for C&C. I am giving my all to see that such developments will happen in the New Year due to preparations now underway. But only a wide collaboration to pioneer and demonstrate solutions will assure the outstanding results needed for C&C to "win the hearts and minds".

C&C will always be challenging and scary even when it is enhancing our lives because of the magnitude of the change that is necessary to honor its vision. The paper I wrote shows that we, in the North and West need to reduce outright consumption by a factor of 6 times - this is not less reduction then is now called for by those in the climate change protest camp. However, while the quantitative facts are similar the qualitative view is very different and this difference "is everything" in how we approach the problem and even more so: how we approach solutions.

This is a different platform then the one that is out there now. Some who are leading or active with current campaigns and events might also support this new and emerging platform, but if not then we should raise the positive banner and establish the positive movement that is not engaged in protest but in personal development (acquiring knowledge and Eco Living? skills) so that those who are positive and hopeful do have a movement that is developing plans and policies reflecting this viewpoint and creating our own agenda to get us to a place of true abundance and peace.

Richard Nelson solaroof@yahoo.com http://www.solaroof.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solaroof Sola Roof Guy Wiki Blog Together we can BUILD a sustainable future

Original Message ----

From: Dave Hampton - Carbon Coach <dave@carboncoach.com> To: Richard Nelson <solaroof@yahoo.com>; christopher macrae <chris.macrae@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 1:05:42 AM Subject: Re: from Al Gore a pivotal point and C&C?

Hi Richard and all

Not wanting to pre-empt any cafe conversations! ;-)

Thanks for what you say Richard and I have read your piece and enjoyed it a lot. I agree totally about abundance and positive and transformative shared visions.

There is truth in what you say about how C&C CAN BE presented alongside 'scarcity thinking' - but that has not been the core of my experience or closeness with Aubrey. I think there are a lot of conversations around what C&C IS and ISN'T and for some reason negativity seems to be drawn into those?.. in other words i think C&C attracts criticism. Some of the criticism may be valid, but SOME of it may have origins in pockets of deep seated denial... and hence be popular!?

I am in fully in support of your aim, and I agree C&C can evolve and blossom - in its presentation and the context in which it manifests. I believe it represents a mathematical truth and a skeleton of physical reality that is very precious (and fragile) so I am always anxious that others maintain open minds about it, DESPITE being aware of your valid concerns.

I hope that makes some sense.

C&C when it first emerged - was about as transformative and positive as anything could be - at a stroke of his violin - the POSSIBILITY of a reversal of the status quo - of ever increasing CO 2? emissions - was created from the blue... creating a future in abundance by recognizing a limit about to destroy us and a path to abundance around it,

Is it possible that C&C has 'knockers' in the same way as Exxon and co generated the seeds of climate science doubt? I do not say this lightly. But C&C is steeped in politics - it struggles to exist outside of that arena. I do not suggest that you are in any way wrong in your analysis Richard - but I am keen to remember what is good and perfect and strong and elegant and transformative about C&C... as well as what needs to evolve, develop and be further nurtured


Original Message -----

From: Richard Nelson To: christopher macrae ; Dave Hampton - Carbon Coach Cc: sofia@turnupthecourage.com ; cashrichclub@tiscali.co.uk ; brian@creativedream.co.uk ; jbunzl@simpol.org ; Franklin Frederick ; annewirstad@yahoo.com ; lilly3653@aol.com ; peter@brandenergyresearch.co.uk ; trimtab@sprynet.com Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:01 AM Subject: Re: from Al Gore a pivotal point and C&C?

Hi all,

I won't send you a long message but I will invite you to look at one here: http://www.solaroof.org/wiki/SolaRoofGuy/20060915

This is taken from a discussion thread at the Global Villages forum called "multiple sliver bullets" - a cluster of initiatives that revolve around new paradigms for the "built environment". The biggest lever that we have for change is our own homes - Ecological Habitat is the grand design for serious results that would have the power to turn around the trends and avoid dangerous climate change. Therefore your reference to the RIBA having adopted C&C is very important.

In the above long reply I set out a practical path to Contraction and Convergence - but it is a path to a world of abundance, peace and prosperity because I propose that there is also a transformation going with the C&C process - a transformation to sustainable living; a transformation of our built environment to ecological habitats for humanity; a transformation of lifestyle to "Eco Living?".

If, as is the current focus of the C&C discussion, the only concepts presented are limited to: equitable sharing of limited, non renewable resources; equal sharing of responsibility for the destruction of the atmosphere; equitable limits on our potential and deprivation in a world focused on scarcity - then C&C will not have a really beneficial effect beyond the concept of "sharing the pain". Unfortunately current speakers and leaders of the C&C and environmental ("green") discussion are just engaging in linear thinking and extrapolation which is what carbon trading is all about and if we go down this path we are actually playing to the agenda of Big Oil & Big Energy + fear and conflict politics. Also, anyone who sticks their neck out to (and shows courage or hope in the future) propose a solution is likely to be shot down by the GREENS first because most of this community are acting defeated and have put their reputation behind annalysis & predictions of how bad it is all going to be.

So I must ask the leaders, above all to take the time to learn (in depth) about the solutions and to do this without skepticism but with courage to face the really good but disruptive knowledge and technology that is simply waiting to be applied - but which will change the power structure and the social & economic order at the same time.

I feel that it is very important for us to meet and to seek a shared vision that is positive and transformative (accessible to individuals so as to empower change); develop from this a plan and an agenda to move this plan forward. One aspect is to gain support for this C&C based plan from every possible side and try to engage the recognized leaders to back this plan. Is this ambitious enough? Who is ready to act on this challenge?

Richard Nelson solaroof@yahoo.com http://www.solaroof.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solaroof Sola Roof Guy Wiki Blog Together we can BUILD a sustainable future