20110319
Hi Ted,
Thanks for your feedback and it was really great having the opportunity to sit down with you and discuss our household Sola Roof DIY. Now, the project that Anne Wirstad is developing in Norway is for family farms, coop farms and Eco Villages? - it is nearly 3 times large scale at 8 meters wide inside and 10 meters overall width - with length usually 20 to 30 meters or more. These farm scale Sola Roof greenhouse are likely to be up to 50m long and so the bubble machines are going to be rated for filling the bubble cavity in about 10 minutes for 50 or 60m tunnels. For the size that Anne and Robert now plan - in the 10 or 20m length - we can use smaller bubble machines, or if the same rating as for the longer tunnel, then the bubble cavity will fill in 5 minutes or less.
Lets say that the bubble cavity is 10 meters from peak to ground and runs 10 meters plus the end wall cavity - this could add up to 150 cubic meters (the cavity is 90cm deep on average) on each side. One of the Bubble Generators on at the peak (over each end wall) is filling one side. So that is two machines: each takes air from one side of the the tunnel and pushes bubbles into the other side. The partition of the two sides (north and south) is made along the ridge and down each End Wall?. The bubble machines are set into the partition and bubble/air flow can only move through the bubble generator units. So, if one of the Bubble Generators? (BG Units) must fill one side of 150 M3 in 5 minutes then we need a BG Fans BG Motors? that moves 30 M3 per minute. This is not difficult and can be done with a 500 w sealed motor or perhaps less for the BG Fan Motor? component that is the key mechanical part need to build BG Units. I like the BG Fan Motor? components from the outdoor "Compressor" unit of a residential Heat Pump system. They will move about the right amount of air/bubbles and have sealed motors that work at household AC voltage. Sealed wiring boxes for electrical connection and ground fault circuit breaker system is required.
Our Sola Roof DIY for household projects - that needs to fit a typical North American "backyard" - is smaller and we have considered using smaller BG Fan Motor? component from a Heat Pump Compressor, since there are various ratings. I think that we can use a 200w to 300w motor since our bubble cavity volume is much smaller. Nigel, who is producing our 3D Auto CAD drawings can extract the volume information from our current drawing and reply to this message to provide a couple rendered views and linear and cross-section views in reply to this discussion. From my experience, I am specifying the sealed motors and plastic or aluminum fans - these are usually an integrated package - but it is also possible to custom fit selected motors with fans - but the location of BG Unit? within the cavity and mounted on the partition keeps the system very simple and these sealed motors also assure quality and maintenance free service for many years. The fan diameter is typically 30cm to 60cm diameter - what will fit
Also, Ted and our team in Canada will be sharing our details of specs and design for BG Units that we will be building soon and Nigel will post our CAD file using file sharing tools on the web so that the global Sola Roof community can see what we are doing and participate by replicating or creating variations that add to the knowledge base that we are building as a community. What is exciting is that it looks like there will be several Sola Roof DIY sites in several countries where "DIY Food" projects will be operational before summer.
Robert, Anne, if there is more that you tell us about your choices of BG Fans? and other equipment - and you can document such information at the Bubble Tech section of the Wiki - where there will be very detailed information as time goes by.
I am interested in your response to Ted's questions as may be possible now and as we move through design/build steps with DIY projects that will be different in detail, but also similar in concept to our backyard project in Canada.
Regards, Richard - Hide quoted text -
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Ted Jenzer wrote: Hi all,
the project in norway sure looks good.If you have a chance during your discussions it would be helpful to get the following info,to start the specs on a standard fan assy.
1) Volume of the 2 halfs to be filled 2) Time expectation to be filled 3) Max. mounting dimensions available (partition panel/square) for fan mounting 4) Average sump pump gpm requirement if known / or calculated (to feed the fan with liquid) 5) Is the fan assy.definately staing on the Inside? There might be an issue that the motor rotors will corrode ( soapy moisture)
I will be able to get a quote from suppliers with or without a prefabricated filter cavity attachment, if agreed on the specs I would then practically run tests between filter choices etc.
Have a good weekend
Ted
From: Richard Nelson
Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 12:05:31 PM Subject: Fwd: Sola Roof i Hurdal
Hi Ted, Nigel,
I thought it would be helpful to share these drawing images with you - this is one of the projects in planning stage now in Norway. It will be constructed at the Hurdal Eco Village?.
The fame is a curved A-Frame in steel hoops that will be recovered and recycled from a greenhouse that shut down.
I thought it would be a great idea to introduce Ted, who is going to be collaborating with our project in Canada - Ted has worked with me - leading the production of a couple of our large scale Sola Roof projects in the late 1990's - so, I have shown Ted our project while I was in Toronto last week and I got some very useful advise.
Nigel, I would like to think a bit more on what Ted & I discussed and ask if we might meet later this Friday or on the weekend. Now I am considering some scale model work and full scale testing of the concept for our "segmented arch" that will help to verify the choice of the profile to extrude in volume (500 Kg) so that there is more confidence that we have the right choice of for the framing member.
I am really pleased that Ted will get involved, Ted will especially help with building the bubble machines.
Regards, Richard
Forwarded message ----------
From: Anne Wirstad Date: 2011/3/16 Subject: Sola Roof i Hurdal To: Richard Nelson
Hi Richard,
Here are drawings.
Still in process.
1) Can you look at them and comment please?
2) Are you suggesting 12, 24 or 220 volt for el system for pumps and fans?
3) What kind of back-up system would you recommend?
Anne